Marcelo

Και το είπε σε εμάς, ε;

^
xaxaxaxxx! Αποκλείεται να μην της το έδειξε ποτέ!

Fallen angel έγραψε:Κάτι που μου άρεσε πάρα πολύ που είπε ο Marcelo για την Tarja είναι ότι το τραγούδι είναι η λιγότερο ανεπτυγμένη ικανότητά της, ή κάπως έτσι..

o marcelo exei kanei apisteuto kalo stin tarja gia enan kai mono logo: tis ypegrapse 3exwristo symvolaio me to label apo oti olo to ypoloipo band kai etc i tarja me vasi tous dikous tis orous symvolaiou exei dikaiwma se ola ta nw songs pou periexoun tin fwni tis koinws kanena nw song den mporei na kykloforisei episima me tin annete na to leei live apo tin tarja era auto kai mono apodeiknyei poso spirto kai poniros einai se auto pou kanei (stin douelia tou ennow) einai poly kalos. twra ti an8rwpos einai den 3erw giati den to exw psa3ei kai idiatera alla afou agapaei tin a3iagapiti tarja ton agapw ki auton :p (aman me tis agapes pia ) ali8eueie pws tin i3ere apo to wdeio prin mpei stous nw kai itan erwteumenos apo tote mazi tis? oso gia auto peri tuomas to exei dilwsei o idios imaginary rain. ektos ki an 8es na peis pws o tuomas dilwnei gia ton eauto tou anypostata pragmata

ali8eueie pws tin i3ere apo to wdeio prin mpei stous nw kai itan erwteumenos apo tote mazi tis?

Για ποιον ρωτάς; Ο Marcelo σίγουρα όχι γιατί γνωρίστηκαν σε tour..

Για τον Tuomas δεν ξέρω, αλλά σίγουρα γνωρίζονταν από μικρή ηλικία και νομίζω πως η Tarja πρέπει να έκανε και μαθήματα με την μητέρα του. Για το ότι ήταν ερωτευμένος μαζί της κι εγώ το έχω διαβάσει, αλλά όχι από τον ίδιο. Δεν μου ακούγεται καθόλου απίθανο, αλλά θα μπορούσε να είναι και φήμες.
Πάντως νομίζω πως στην βιογραφία τους έλεγε σε κάποιο σημείο μιλώντας για την Tarja και το ξεκίνημά τους ότι όλοι στο λύκειο ήταν τσιμπημένοι μαζί της.

oloi tsimphmenoi mazi ths? auto den to gnwrizw gia na pw thn alhtheia... alla gia ton tuomas nomizw oti htan erwteumenos mazi ths mexri k thn stigmh p efyge h tarja....

Mporei na nai tzimani o Marcelo sti douleia kai se kathe symvolaio me tin Tarja kai na tin exei steilei sta ourania alla den ton paw katholou ma katholou... kai oxi epeidi pairnw to meros tou Tuomas oso kai an ton lypamai gia ton (anepivevaiwto apo ton idio) erwta tou gia tin Tarja .. panta allwste thwrousa apo tin stigmi pou diavasa kai tis apantiseis tou Marcelo kai to Open letter twn Nightwish oti to ftaiksimo anike kai sta 2 meri... akomi kai sto crew...
alla kai pali den ton paw..
Na sas pw kai to sok tis zwis mou otan edwsa proforika Michigan gia proficiency o exetastis emoiaze toso ston Marcelo(opws itan sto E.O.A.E. documentary-pragmatika gleiwdis dld -pou tote anarwtiomoun ti tou vrike) pou ehasa tin milia mou gia kana lepto..nomiza oti eida ton idio-fysika adynaton afou ta agglika tou einai sxetika halia +einai kai argentinos pws tha itna eksetastis lol!. itan kai sxetika prosfato to gegonos me to Open Letter... Friki friki....
kai an mou epitrepete na grpasw kapoia ligoulakia parapanw..den einai dika mou alla panw katw symfwnw kai ta thewrw poli epoikodomitiki kritiki...
I remember Marcelo said a very wise thing: media cannot spread drama FOR YEARS without being feed with drama. That's it: the ridiculous "open letter", the interviews afterwards, the biography, the documentary on End of an Era, the Idols-like search for a vocalist, chosing Bye Bye Beautiful as a single are all pieces of a very well-thought promotional strategy: keep people interested, spread the drama, make fans take sides.

What would have happened had they fired Tarja privately and avoided turmoil by not talking publicy about it and making her do the same (there are lots of similar legal contracts: the two parties simply agree to never speak badly about each other)? For a couple of months the media would have tormented them, yes, but in the end they would have dropped the topic completely since they wouldn't have anything to talk about.

But that's the point: the band would have lost popularity, and money. They would have had to rely only on the music to keep their fans: that's tiring as hell.
Much better setting a wonderful media circus in which they portraited themselves as the knights in shining armour and tarja as an evil witch. Through this marketing strategy they gained LOADS of new fans who never heard about them before.

But now, this genious strategy is starting to back-fire: the existing problems in the band continue to be there, proving that it wasn't all the Evil Witch's fault. And their new singer is beginning to show glaring signs of inexperience and plain unprofessionalism.
I'm sorry to say this, but... serves them well. the next time they might consider behaving like true artist, and not as cheap media whores.

about Bye bye Beautiful (and the split) I've always had the impression that Tuomas was the most honest about it: now, before everyone else accuse me of being a Tuomasholic, I must say that I've never understood the fangirl fuss around him, and that his tormented-poet attitude irks me more often than not,lol.
But even among the (to me) disgusting amout of self-promotion they've made after the split, he genuinely seemed to me like he was suffering A LOT.
I'm not going to start crying "oh poor him what a beautifully tormented oceansoul yadda yadda" and such bullshit. But he seemed honest in his (TOTALLY wrong and distorted) opinion that he was wronged and Tarja was wronged and that Devil Husband was the culprit.

Of course I can be totally wrong, of course it's possible that he has faked it all along, but he honestly gave to me the impression that he was the ONLY ONE who genuinely believed that there was a Good vs. Evil war, and he was on the right side.
I'm hardly justifying him, and if it's true I must say he's extremely naive (or plainly delusional), despite being also glaringly smart and talented. But despite all the intelligence that he displays in interviews I've had always the impression that there was something extremely self-righteous about him, a tendency towards seeing things in black and white terms and an inability to recognize his mistakes in a calm and mature way without taking the self-deprecating route.

Now, of course I'm not stupid enough to say that you can really know a person through what you see in interviews: I have not the presumption to know him, and I'm perfectly ok with the fact that probably I just had the wong impressions about him: mine are just speculations, but reflect my thoughts nonethelles.
Giving this, it seems to me that he truly believed in everything he said (including Bye Bye Beautiful), and that he was surrounded by very business-smart people who used his lack of objectivity (and, sorry, plain self-delusions) to promote the We=good She=gullible Her Husband=eviiiilz marketing strategy which was very profitable for the band.

Yes, the media in Finland started to became creepy, but to me it was a natural consequence of what the band (and overall, the management) did: I agree that it's ridiculous when the press lurks in the offcial forums or pick the Christmas card comment to write a whole arcticle.

But that's the point (and I agree with mermaid here): you cannot feed the media for almost two years and then expect that it will stop after you say: "Ok, now I have talked enough about it. Let's move on". They WON'T move on, instead they will try and dissect every thing you say and try to find a scoop no matter what. You willingly feed them once (more that once actually, lol), and they will demand to be fed by you whether you like it or not.
To me the fact that the band management couldn't predict this, it's a proof of its painful unprofessionalism and plain ignorance about the way media works, and that's sad.

About Tuomas, it's true that recently he has avoided talking about Tarja. Pros to him. Yet, I don't like what he said (and continue) to say about the Belo Horizonte thing, but i'll pass.
I have more issues against Marco continuing to emphasize the fact that they are sooo much more down-to-earth now. It's not that he's openly attacking Tarja, but very often semantics work more subtlety than it seems, and I judge the band wise enough (yeah, Tuomas too) to understand that at this point it would be better not mentioning the "old era" at all. Probably I'm just being a bitch, but to me that stinks of the old "keep the media interested" strategy.
About Anette, lately I must say i sadly have lost much of the respect I had for her. I've stopped reading her blog, but too many things gave me the impression (again, it's not that I believe to know her, of course) that she's mostly being immature and unprofessional about her role in the band.

having said that and before being labeled as a Tarjaholic (not by you, Phantom, because you always sound very sensible) I must say that i never belived she's an innocent angel, I'm not too fond of her solo-carreer and though I'd take her over Anette anyday I wasn't entirely satisfied of her live performances in NW since 2002. Still, she is behaving in a more professional way than her ex collegues.
I don't think it's a question of being naive, Tuomas does seem smart enough but, I believe he was convinced in what he saw/heard. When you have a fight with somebody you hardly admit your own faults and sometimes people see only the others faults. It's not such an uncommon, fake behaviour in my opinion. Even if later you realize that probably you were wrong , pride often prevent from admit it. Honestly, who would admit, in Tuomas/NW position, that they were partially wrong ? I do wonder if perhaps Tuomas has not started to regret some things he said , but I think he hardly would admit his faults.
So my opinion is that he was convinced about Marcelo being the ultimate evil (jelousy or not jelousy, it's not necessairly the point) and Tarja was for him like a sort of "victim" but at the same he was facing a situation in which Tarja was extremely popular and many people identified her with Nightwish. And he also stated several times that he would have quit Nightwish without Tarja and that her vocals were among Nightwish unique elemensts (if not THE unique element, you can easily find these things I'm saying..he really did say it). So how to make Nightwish "believable" without Tarja? How to make Tarja "replacable"? Telling his "truth" , making people understand Tarja was replacable, justifying themselves for what they were doing (even if he was conscious that he was hurting Tarja doing so). That's dishonest but it doesn't mean he wasn't convinced of his accusations.
He didn't talk with Tarja for one year, and the last talks he had with her were all fights for this and that (lol he ended fighting with her even when he went shopping with her and Marcelo in one of the dates of the South America 2004 tour, as he mentions in the book), in the end they communicated through managers. Obviously Ewo was constantly telling him how much a pain in the ass Marcelo was . I guess Tuomas didn't exactly think about that maybe Ewo could have been wrong sometimes (guys it's King Foo who book shows for Nightwish and deal with promoters and stuff, not NW members themselves), or that Marcelo could have had a point sometimes. There was a situation in which 2 separated camps were bitching towards each others so of course Tuomas was convinced of the "evilness" of Marcelo lol (And , in my PERSONAL opinion, Tuomas was partially "blinded" by jealousy, it's crystal clear the man can't stand Marcelo and not just as manager in my opinion) . And in the end he had to "save" the band from splitting (Marco and Jukka were furious about the fact Tarja made cancel the USA tour and wanted to cancel the Australian leg) and save their credibility (nobody imagined Nightwish without Tarja before the split, not even Tuomas himself lol).
I don't think it was an easy position for him though (again it's not an attempt to justify him) , probably for several reasons..I guess firstly because he knew he was going to do such a backstabbing thing towards a bandmate and friend, probably because originally he really cared for Tarja , probably because he knew he was going to loose such an important element of NW sound (and such a professional singer, he always appreaciated her talent after all). I think he was also genuinally disappointed from Tarja attitude, I guess he misunderstood her a bit. She was talking a lot about the fact she didn't want to sing in a metal band her whole life, and it seemed almost like Nightwish prevented her for following her classical career dream (from some of her declarations). I'm sure Tuomas didn't take these words well, it seems like it was important what she thought about Nightwish. I remember a random interview made during Once tour, he was said that it was very important for him the fact Tarja told him , after they finished recording Once, that it was her best musical experience so far . And he added he was really flattered by this comment and his heart went up or something like this. I know some of you will take it as an attempt to praise himself, for me it seems he did give a f*** about Tarja?s opinion .

It was easy for the others to hide behind Tuomas. No doubt Tuomas was a n.1 coward , the others were no much better honestly. Emppu, such a great friend, sold himself out so well so far; he said for him the band was like a job. Marco has joined Nightwish basically because it was the only way to live out of music for him (since Tarot have never been so famous) . Jukka, well he?s the n.2 in Nightwish and the guy who basically manages financial issues concerning Scene Nation Oy . To sum up, Tuomas is actually the only one who has still an artistic interest in Nightwish and to whom NW are not just a plain job but something a bit more than that.
I don't know, but I'm starting to feel like the band is going to break up in a few years, and that one of the main causes is the fact that the huge mess they have created is beginning to back-fire. I'm sorry about it, but i cannot help believing that had they done things differently this wouldn't be the case. maybe they would be less popular now, but certainly more credible (and maybe also happier)..
About Marcelo, I feel like he's not white as snow either, (no smoke without fire to me), but obviously he's not the evil person Tuomas spoke/wrote about. I think that being both the manager and husband of Tarja complicated and biased/distorted many things that increased the breach between Tarja and the rest of the band.

Also, we can understand the guys felt betrayed that Tarja simply had planned to do a solo career even if she had good reasons to do so. They felt like she, with Marcelo, used Nw to "prepare the ground" for it (as Jukka or Marco said in the bio).

Just like Tarja, Tuomas lost a lot in that story, for Tarja being the great frontwoman and singer we all know, she was also her muse/source of inspiration and a kind of platonic love for him. I still can't see him as a bad guy but for sure he's weak emotionally and has clearly a confused / tormented / vengeful mind, I still don't think he's a greedy and truly calculating person.

Like in many bad stories, I think people have underestimated the suffering behind that mess, many remain blind to the real reasons and prefer hastily spread judgements and have scapegoats to drop their frustrations and rabies.

Einai apo to www.metalfromfinland.com comments diaforwn fans kai mi. poly endiaferon kata ti gnwmi mou...

gothessa έγραψε:mporei na min exei ti glukitita tis tarja ton enthousiasmo tis i na min einai oli tin wra xamogelastos ktl alla einai sovaros metrimenos kai krataei isoropies auto einai simantiko gia autin kathws kai tin proswpiki kai tin epaggelmatiki tous sxesi..entaxei einai kapws apomakros alla den einai autos kallitexnis i gunaika tou einai!kai tin upostirizei!emena m aresei auti i antithesi!

wraio to epixeirima sou *thumbs up*
apo tin photo pantws 1000000 fores o Tuomas me tin Tarja.. gia tin emfanisi kai mono...an oxi gia otidipote allo..

san maimoudaki einai stin pic re paidia btw poly endiaferouses oi apopseis apo to metalformfinland!!! poly sygkrotimenes kai analymenes apopseis!

xaxaxa vasika ti photo tin evala gia tragiki eirwneia!
alla auto pou eipa isxuei!o tuomas me tarja m aresoun pio polu gia filoi!pisteuw pws mporei na upirxe apla enas platwnikos erwtas..

^symfwnw mazi sou vasika egw ton tuomas ton exw gia typo pou erwteuetai platwnika oxi me pa8os den mporw na ton fantastw pantremeno!

o tuomas me tin kamia den einai savourompip

^kala edw fainetai gia afrikanos

vasika na sou pw tin alitheia emena mou thumizei podosfairisti!!

iiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!! dn h3era oti uparxei topic gia tn..................legamenooo!!!!!!!


MIA le3h exw na pw gia tn Marcelo!............ OUG!

Pseires pseires! 3usou Marceloo!

Na sas pw! PWS einai Dunaton! oi mises p tn exoun dei....na ton ...8ewroun...... KOUKLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/??


Ma einai gia na kobeis fleba....kai na rixneis kai kamia enaish....etc ..gia t tsakir kefi!!!!!!! OIME!!!!!!

ki egw 8a frontisw na ton dw olo kai se kana backstage 8a kataferw na kanw ntou i eleni pantws apo oso 8ymamai eixe pei oti einai eugenestatos otan ton eixe dei mia fora! gia na ton agapaei i tarja sigoura 8a exei kapoia kala

Nai...exei krifa xarismata to poulaki m !


Odws....einai pl kalos... mia filh m ..p o 3aderfos ths htan hxolipths kai upeu8unos gia ton hxo..kati teteio... sthn sunaulia ths Tarjas.... eixe paei h kopela st kamarini ths..kai h Tarja htan agaliasmenh me tn Marcelo.....kai na deite PWS thn kalodexthkan..... einai pl kalos......kai fusika h tajoula...

emena dn m aresei o Tuomas kai TOSO..!^ dn eipa oti einai 8eos kai kouklos....ooooooo nai kovw fleba gia xarh t !

To idio kai m tn Marcelo... emena dn m aresei kai pl.... alla dn einai kai KOUKLOS re g@mot0)

oloi kouklo tn lene......

gohteutikoulh nai....alla oxi kai kouklo...

H tarja....tn exei erwteutei kai to sevomai aft! O XRISTS kai h Panagia! Einai kalos....o Marcelo... dn eipa oti einai stimmeno adero

Einai kalos ..aki fusika thn agapaei thn Tarjoula m [Gt poios DEN THN AGAPAEI! ]

aax ti kala

otan les agkalia katerina ti ennoeis? tin ekane ntaxtirdi? kai btw esy ton exeis dei apo konta wre? giati apo konta ontws mporei na einai poly diaforetikos